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Post by Talissa on May 6, 2003 11:21:12 GMT 11
How do you think Eponine's death is more effectively done? Our Eponine and Marius are almost sobbing as they sing, and it had all of us almost in tears ourselves, but in most of the recordings I've heard, there's barely been any sign of pain or sorrow except for (occasionally), Eponine sounding a bit weak, and not even that. I can't stand it when the Eponine sounds stronger than the Marius in that scene because it makes it sound like he's the one dying.
Someone I spoke to about it said that it's fine for there to be no pain in Eponine's voice because she says "I don't feel any pain," but she's been shot. Even if the pain's pushed to the back of her mind by her happiness at being in Marius' arms, she'll be weak. She's losing a lot of blood, and it would probably hurt to breathe.
Oh yes, and where exactly is she supposed to be shot? In the production I saw, it was a head wound. I don't know much about these things, but aren't they usually instantly fatal?
~Julia
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Post by Buff on May 6, 2003 16:43:10 GMT 11
Oh yes, and where exactly is she supposed to be shot? In the production I saw, it was a head wound. I don't know much about these things, but aren't they usually instantly fatal? It's definitely in the head. Marius sings about it : "Eponine, what's wrong? I feel...
There's something wet upon your hair"Depending on where she was hit, how deep, what angle the bullet hit etc it can be non-fatal. It would appear that she either dies from the wound or bleeds to death. As for the singing, as long as the words can be understood, get as much emotion as you can. I agree that sometimes they sound too "happy" about it all. Buff  |
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Post by Tinechorwen on May 6, 2003 20:00:42 GMT 11
Yes, especially when she is a belter. I think the contrast between "On my own" and "a little fall of rain" should be alot as well, after all she can belt in On my own, but it doesn't really suit in a Little fall of rain. In the recording I have, the girl sings the line, "The rain that brings you here is heaven blessed!" quite louder than the rest, but I don't think it's out of place there because she's just so happy she's in his arms. But the rest of it shouldn't be very powerful. I think that song is definitely alot of acting, although of course if the actress forgets the singing completely it sounds shocking. I love it when she gets to be a bit breathy at the end as she gets closer to death, sure 'technically' it's not good singing but it sounds so realistic and sad... |
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Post by Talissa on May 6, 2003 22:37:49 GMT 11
In the recording I have, the girl sings the line, "The rain that brings you here is heaven blessed!" quite louder than the rest, but I don't think it's out of place there because she's just so happy she's in his arms. It's hard to sing that line softly because the last notes need quite a bit of support or else they'll collapse, because they're right on a transition area of the voice. Of course, Schonberg probably wrote it that way. It has to crescendo. ~Julia |
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Post by Tinechorwen on May 7, 2003 21:03:26 GMT 11
If the Eponine sobbed or sang softly throughout the entire song it would be a bit bland as well, unless she was an excellent actress.
Just as a diversion, where does the normal female voice usually change or does it depend from person to person?
Mine is around the E, F mark (perfect for Jekyll and Hyde) but if a large portion of the piece in in higher notes then obviously it doesn't happen there otherwise it would sound a bit strange.
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Post by Talissa on May 8, 2003 11:56:28 GMT 11
There are two transition points in the female voice. One's around E above middle C, and the other is around the E above that. There is an overlap area though, in which you can sing in either of the voices (so chest or middle, or middle or head). It's possible to push your chest and middle voices higher, but that's usually dangerous, and it's much safer to push your head voice lower. That's one reason why belting can be dangerous, because it's pushing your chest voice up. I know that when I'm belting, my transition is around A above middle C.
With practice, of course, you can smooth down the transitions enough that even you barely notice them any more, and that makes it easier to sing songs in those ranges.
~Julia
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Post by Tinechorwen on May 8, 2003 19:55:08 GMT 11
Yes, I've heard a couple of girls singing before, (not to be nasty) that had great difficulty with making the transition, I think they were both alto's though so there head voices weren't strong and were very limited. I have to sing some nasty Latin and German pieces for my exams, and because of their nature my transition area is earlier. And also, girls belting too high isn't the nicest sound either, reminds me of Annie. Thanks for that info too Talissa, very cool. You should come to perth and be a singing teacher, there are barely any here, you'd be rich. |
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Post by Talissa on May 9, 2003 16:17:24 GMT 11
I think what's worse than singers having questionable transition areas is when their head voice is rather markedly different from their chest voice. A friend of my mum's gave me a Reader's Digest ALW compilation triple CD, and the girl who sings Angel of Music has a beautiful soaring head voice, but her chest voice is rather dull. And, with all the large intervals in Angel of Music, it's terrible to listen to.
*lol* Most of what I've learnt about singing and voice has been through observation and a little bit of reading. I'd need to study properly to teach voice. It might be a nice idea when I've finished my degree, though.
~Julia
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Post by Tinechorwen on May 9, 2003 20:15:20 GMT 11
True, Angel of Music is a bit of a b---- to sing, especially considering each phrase starts so high. I think I have that CD!!!! Does basically everyone on it sound absolutely horrible? If it's the same one, you should listen to the guy who sings Music of the Night....it was painful! My voice teacher is always complaining about how there are no voice teachers in Perth, not sure about the Eastern States but there is definitely a bit lack over here. Don't know why she complains though, means more students for her. I've found that listening to people with incredibley bad technique, which is alot of people at my school who think they can scream/belt and not damaged their voices, teaches you alot. |
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Post by Talissa on May 10, 2003 11:50:20 GMT 11
Yes, I think it is the same one! There are a couple of really good singers on it, but most of them were painful. I don't remember MotN. I'll go and listen to it.
~Julia
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Post by Tinechorwen on May 15, 2003 0:30:55 GMT 11
*nods* Yeah, the girl who sung all the Evita songs was pretty good, her voice completely suited the role, but the rest were kind of scary. And some of ALW's music is a bit weird, sorry if this offends anyone but I've never been a fan of the Starlight Express...or whatever the trains one is.  And yes, ALW and Les Mis are totally related....... |
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Post by Talissa on May 15, 2003 8:30:48 GMT 11
Most of ALW's music you either love or hate. Phantom of the Opera and Sunset Boulevard are about the only two which are fairly widely accepted by the general musical theatre community. Don't worry about straying from the topic, Kelly. At least we're still talking about musicals. And anyway, conversations are more likely to get interesting if they're allowed to branch naturally. I'll tell you when you're straying too much, okay? Oh yes, and as a matter of interest, I checked Eponine's death in the book, and she doesn't get shot in the head (which is why it had been striking me as odd). During the previous attack, she had saved Marius' life by placing her hand over the end of a gun which was aimed at him, and the ball went through her hand and then through her chest, and out her back. I'm not even sure if the line "there's something wet upon your hair" was even supposed to imply that she gets shot in the head. She tends to wear her hair out, remember, and if she's bleeding as much as she would be, of course it would be on her hair. Wow, lengthy post. ~Julia |
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Post by Buff on May 15, 2003 12:33:34 GMT 11
During the previous attack, she had saved Marius' life by placing her hand over the end of a gun which was aimed at him, and the ball went through her hand and then through her chest, and out her back. I'm not even sure if the line "there's something wet upon your hair" was even supposed to imply that she gets shot in the head. She tends to wear her hair out, remember, and if she's bleeding as much as she would be, of course it would be on her hair. I'd love to know how the change came about. I was wondering if from a staging/makeup point of view it was easier to have her shot in the head (splash a bit of red paint on the hair, then cover with a bandage rather than cover a hole in the front and the back). I sound rather cynical there, don't I  Buff |
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