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Post by Talissa on Feb 24, 2006 0:43:42 GMT 11
My connection dies and look what I come back to! I hope I can blame this on the heat  I won't go over reasons that have already been put forward for TPC to be nominated, and I agree with every one of them. But one very reasonable one, apart from the brilliant performances that deserve recognition, regardless of the scale of the production, is that this gives three more shows that will always be there to be nominated if the panel sees fit. In a year when there are only two or three other musicals in Melbourne, isn't that worth it to make things that small bit more interesting? What if one year we only had one professional musical in town? And don't say it couldn't happen. |
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Post by bamboozled on Feb 24, 2006 10:56:19 GMT 11
I'm sorry yonkers, but I have to continue to disagree. These ARE full productions in terms of PERFORMANCE. The entire score is played by an entire orchestra, every piece of choreography is learnt, every lyric and every piece of dialogue learnt, every scene blocked and directed...EVERYTHING is a full scale musical about the show. EXCEPT A SET.
Which brings me back to my original point: a set and high production values do not define a performance.
I saw a performance of Othello that was here a couple of years ago that had won multiple international awards. It had no set. Nothing. It was just performed on the empty black stage.
So those actors were just doing a "concert" Othello, were they? And that show should not have been nominated for its performance awards either, I suppose, because it had no set.
Honestly- what is different about a production company show as opposed to a longer running show... other than a SET? Sunset was, yes, staged as a concert but Oklahoma, Kiss Me Kate and others were not. They were staged, in full, as musicals and thats exactly what they looked like. Just without a set. I am just confused by your argument.
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Post by Yonkers on Feb 24, 2006 13:28:40 GMT 11
Talissa, by having the Production Company participate is really a sort of "false economy". It is like saying we don't have much of a musical theatre industry but if we put these shows in contention it makes it look that much more industrious than it really is.
Bamboozled, to use a production of Othello in this argument doesn't hold water. Musicals by their very nature are a totaly different entertainment. You must have strong performances from actors, the musical department, the set and costumes departments. These are all part of the package you pay for.* When The Production Company was set up we were told that they would be doing concert presentations of musicals. Fine. What we get now is neither a concert or full presentation some strange, often rough hybrid which is neither.
Quite often cuts are made Bamboozled, I still break out in a sweat when I think what Rodney Fisher(what the hell was he doing directing a musical anyway?) did in the company's presentation of what they tried to pass off as HELLO,DOLLY! Cuts were made in numbers and large chunks of THE MATCHMAKER were inserted (obviously without consent). This is the most obvious example which comes to my mind now.
* When you pay $80 a ticket you expect value for money i.e . set and costumes. If you are not going to provide the full meal don't charge so much.
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The Dog
Backyard Balladeer
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Post by The Dog on Feb 24, 2006 17:54:43 GMT 11
That's hilarious Crofty! The Dog
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Post by Talissa on Feb 24, 2006 21:31:22 GMT 11
I'm sorry, Yonkers, but I fail to see what about TPC's show is "false". It employs probably over 100 actors over a season who otherwise might be stuck waiting tables, and generates the audiences to give exposure to the lesser known actors and those who wouldn't be given a real chance otherwise.
Again you pull out the example of Hello, Dolly. Do you not have any other examples, or was that truly a unique occurence?
TPC's benefits to the musical theatre industry of our country and especially our city are not to be ignored, and if you're going to keep arguing purely for the sake of a fight, I'm going to have to ask you to step down. This board is for discussion, publicity and encouragement, not blind bickering.
And I was hoping never to have to say that.
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Post by boredboy29 on Feb 24, 2006 22:49:33 GMT 11
Attn Yonkers... "Some questions about the Green Room Awards. How did THRILL ME manage to get three nominations? It was universally panned by all the critics." Have a look at this as one of the MANY rave reviews of Melbournes production of Thrill Me(I also have the one from the Herald Sun, as well as those from ALL the Theatre internet sites that I am sure you frequent)....please provide links to provide proof of your statement.... www.theage.com.au/news/Reviews/Thrill-Me/2005/04/19/1113854194704.html |
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Post by Yonkers on Feb 25, 2006 14:23:11 GMT 11
Talissa, you missed my point. You said "this gives three more shows that will always be there to be nominated..." What I was saying was that what you are saying is implying that at least we'll have someone to nominate, irrespective of whether or not they are any good. So we nominate just to make up the numbers? That's crazy.
You say 'This board is for DISCUSSION, publicity and encouragemant, not blind bickering'. Is this not discussion? Or is this board here only for blind praise. Many on this board seem to have far more blinkered opinions than I.
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Post by bamboozled on Feb 25, 2006 15:00:29 GMT 11
For a large section of the population who still like their old musicals- they are very good! And there are some ripper performances in them! Why else would people be coming back in droves? They may not be your cup of tea- but that doesn't make them unworthy or without merit.
The unsubtantiated claims are coming from you. They may not be false, but they are not being backed up with anything. So please answer the questions that've been asked of your argument. Tell us in your opinion what other shows have "missed out"? You claimed that nominations have been a slap in the face for other actors working in music theatre and you don't need to name names, but what other productions? Martin Croft already, very amusingly, explained the Lion King fiasco but what else missed out in your book?
also Talissa never said that production company shows had to be here to fill out nominations. Away from award stuff, she was arguing the legitimacy of their PRESENCE as a part of our culture here in Melbourne, because you seem to be particularly hostile towards that company... the question is why? And one example of Hello Dolly doesnt seem to cut it. Every company has produced some rough gigs...?
It just seems hostile and unsubstantiated at the moment.
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Post by Yonkers on Feb 25, 2006 23:57:32 GMT 11
Firstly Bamboozled, I like my old musicals (more than the newer ones actually). I just like them done well.
What Talisa wrote reads as though she is saying that they (TPC) are there to make up numbers for nomination. Doesn't it? That's how I read it. Production Company shows that suffered from poor production? Of the top of my head, Mame, Hello, Dolly! (even the cast were embarrassed), The Music Man, How To Succeed..., South Pacific, They're Playing Our Song, Funny Girl. I wrote much about all this last year. It should all be in The Production Company topic. I don't want to go through it all again here.
I wonder if Disney Theatricals had the right idea by not putting their show up for competition? They probably realised that they had nothing to gain by being in it. The show is selling out and some minor award isn't really going to change anything. They would need to give away 8 (?) tickets at $100 each, best to have the money in the bank I would think.
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Post by jackjackjack on Feb 26, 2006 1:06:27 GMT 11
I don't think its particularly polite, Yonkers, to denigrate an entire awards system in a forum where proud nominees and winners can view it, especially as you're not being at all constructive.
If you cannot reword "so-and-so is undeserving" in the form "It's a shame so-and-so missed out," it makes it hard to back up your comments. Speaking of which, you still haven't given an example of a bad review for Thrill Me.
James
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Post by bamboozled on Feb 26, 2006 15:38:03 GMT 11
Great. So you dont like TPC shows because they should have million dollar budgets and then they'd be ok. Still doesn't dismiss the fact that the performances in them are more often than not extraordinarily strong. Nice argument.
This entire argument has gone away from what I originally said and answers to my original questions are still strangely absent. ie What other professional productions/performances missed out on being acknowledged.
And so I step out because this is redundant.
Congratulations to all nominess, congrats to the green room panel for seeing EVERYTHING THEY COULD and seeing through production values and cutting to excellence in PERFORMANCE.
And here's to a day when the production company, and company's akin to it, have the budget to make wonderfully directed, performed and envisioned shows ones that have magnificent sets and production values that make them, and their actors, worthy of "notice" to people who can't see past lack of funding and instead see the magic of performance of classic musical theatre.
Can't wait to see the performers and shows in this years season...of everything.
On that, I sign out.
Oh, and thankyou for the discussion. I agree with you that that is what it was.
Mark.
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Post by bamboozled on Feb 26, 2006 15:40:56 GMT 11
ps talissa you run a very good site here. thanks for letting me visit.
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Post by bamboozled on Feb 26, 2006 15:57:32 GMT 11
and pps I loved thrill me.
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Post by Talissa on Feb 26, 2006 16:37:49 GMT 11
And on that note, I think it's time to lock this thread. If anyone has anything else to say about the Green Room awards, they can start a new thread.
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Post by Talissa on Mar 26, 2006 22:01:16 GMT 11
The Green Room Awards ceremony will take place Sunday, April 9, 2006 at The Fairfax Theatre in the Victorian Arts Centre. 1:00pm for Music Theatre/Dance/Cabaret 4:00pm for Dance/Opera/Fringe and Independent Theatre and the Green Room Named Awards. For more information, visit the GRA website at www.greenroom.org.au/graa.htm |
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