pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 5, 2006 12:03:53 GMT 11
Hi there. I have just seen this musical in America and I quite enjoyed it. I noticed there is a place at this site to talk and discuss it. Can anyone tell me why she turned Bok into the tinman? To me it did not make any sense in the story. I believe this musical is based on a book which I have not read so if anyone can tell me the answer I would be greatful.
|
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 5, 2006 12:07:06 GMT 11
Also is a production of this expected in Australia? I am not sure the Australian public would enjoy it but some reports have said that it will open in Melbourne next year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sally on Nov 5, 2006 14:44:55 GMT 11
*cough* enormous spoiler  Can anyone tell me why she turned Bok into the tinman? She was fixing her sister's botched spell, and turning him into something that didn't require a heart was the only way to save his life. It's different in the book in any case  |
|
|
|
Post by RoseFyre on Nov 5, 2006 23:29:21 GMT 11
Yeah, it's really easiest to think of the book and the musical as two different stories, with characters with the same names (though not even really the same characters), and vaguely similar plotlines.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackjackjack on Nov 6, 2006 0:48:16 GMT 11
I am not sure the Australian public would enjoy it Why not, they enjoyed Spelling Bee, and that's about as un-Australian a concept that ever existed. I think any musical theatre crowd likes a bit of magic.  James |
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 11, 2006 12:22:16 GMT 11
ok. and why did elfaba turn fiyero into the scarecrow? i did not follow that either. I was so confused it seemed like she was mean to do that. and where was dorothy. if it was supposed to be the backstory of wizard of oz then why was the scarecrow so mean to the witch in wizard of oz and helped dorothy so much when in wicked he was in love with elfaba and dorothy was her sisters killer. i dont understand it at all. i did like that the wizard turned out to be the dad though
|
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 11, 2006 12:24:51 GMT 11
well actually it was the lady school teacher that was the sisters killer which is even more confusing. elfaba knew the lady school teacher was the evil one so why did she even blame dorothy. she should have just befriended her. she didnt even tell dorothy that the wizard was a liar. and dorothy did nothing. that was mean too. elfaba is a baddy.
|
|
megziid
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 9
|
Post by megziid on Nov 14, 2006 12:19:04 GMT 11
Wicked is supposed to be an alternate story of the events before and during Dorothy's visit to Oz.
Have you ever heard the saying "History is the Propaganda of the Victors?". Basically it means that we usually only ever hear one side, one version of the story, the version of the story that the 'winners' want us to know.
Wicked is looking at the story from the perspective of the 'loser' in "The Wizard of Oz", the Wicked Witch of the West.
**** More Spoilers ****
Elphaba (not elfaba) turned Fiyero into the Scarecrow to save his life. Madame Morrible (the evil lady schoolteacher) killed Nessarose (Elphaba's sister) as a trap for Elphaba - Elphaba goes to Munchkinland to pay tribute & grieve for her sister, and she is ambushed by the Wizard's guards.
Fiyero then jumps in to save Elphaba by threatening to hurt Glinda if the Guards don't let Elphaba go. They let her go and she leaves at Fiyero's insistence. Once Fiyero releases Glinda, the guards capture him and string him up in the cornfield. It's not specified exactly what they do to him, but it would probably have been a violent beating, then they hung him out to die. At least, that's how I interpret it.
"No Good Deed" is Elphaba casting a spell to save him, for example;
'let his flesh not be torn/let his blood leave no stain/though they beat him/let him feel no pain
let his bones never break/and however they try to destroy him/let him never die'
This spell is what turns him into the Scarecrow, Elphaba's attempt to save him from the pain & possible death at the hands of the guard.
Similarly with Boq's transformation to the Tinman, this is the type of magic that doesn't suddenly make things 'all better' (a la Harry Potter, fixing broken bones and restoring health) but that creates alternate solutions.
e.g. Nessarose cast a spell which removed Boq's heart, Elphaba was not able to reverse the spell to give him his heart back, so had to turn him into a being which didn't require a heart - the Tinman.
In Fiyero's case, Elphaba couldn't perform a spell to reverse the damage inflicted on him by the guards, but she could cast a spell that meant that he wouldn't be hurt by their beating - thus transforming him into the Scarecrow, a creature that would not be hurt by beating, who has no flesh to tear and no blood to stain.
Hope this isn't too overlong and makes some sense!
|
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 14, 2006 13:38:16 GMT 11
Right. I thought it could have been alot clearer. alot of people in the theatre were asking their partners what was happening. I think its a much clearer show for those who have either read the book or listened to the cd alot. because to me none of that was very cealrly communicated. I knew that it was the backstory of the wicked witch of the west and that it was political satire. but i didnt understand key plot points which i dont think were clear if u had no prior knowledge of the show. also i apologise for spelling the lead characters name wrong. i am not obsessed wicked fanatic so i was spelling it how i heard it.
|
|
|
|
Post by RoseFyre on Nov 16, 2006 2:35:57 GMT 11
Except that in the book, Fiyero ISN'T the Scarecrow (though Elphaba desperately wants him to be) and Boq ISN'T the Tinman - he's a random Munchkin, living with his wife and kids. The Tinman is a random man who has been turned into tin, possibly by a spell of Nessarose's.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackjackjack on Nov 18, 2006 15:12:47 GMT 11
Except that in the book, Fiyero ISN'T the Scarecrow (though Elphaba desperately wants him to be) and Boq ISN'T the Tinman - he's a random Munchkin, living with his wife and kids. The Tinman is a random man who has been turned into tin, possibly by a spell of Nessarose's. In the original Oz book, Boq was a munchkin that Dorothy stayed with her first night on the road, the Scarecrow is just a scarecrow and the Tin Woodman is a munchkin who's mother-in-law to be got the witch of the east to enchant his axe so that it would keep attacking him, and he just kept replacing his body parts with tin as he lost them. James |
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 18, 2006 22:53:33 GMT 11
my points exactly. none of this musical is actually clever because it isnt based on the real facts of the true story. and so the book isnt good either because shouldnt it be relating directly to the original stories as they are the basis of it. i dont think it is very good. it is silly. but the music is lovely. i guess like all musicals. silly with good music.
|
|
Lana
Ensemble Enthusiast
If only life were a song and dance number...
Posts: 169
|
Post by Lana on Nov 19, 2006 10:47:13 GMT 11
Well, it's not a true story.
When musicals are adapted from books there's always going to have to be changes. Some things work in novel form and not onstage, and often there's time constraints so they have to cut parts out and rearrange things to make everything fit.
I'm not incredibly familiar with Wicked as I've only heard a handful of songs, but from what I can tell, the adaption from book to musical was well-done.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackjackjack on Nov 19, 2006 12:49:23 GMT 11
There's loose adaptation and then there's loose adaptation. It's not always necessary, and it's not always an improvement. The original book mocked the notion of "no place like home", so those critisisms can be easily applied to the 1939 film. I think that that sort of thing (tone/theme) is much more of a travesty in an adaptation than individual plot points being changed. Just don't get me started on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or The Lost World:Jurassic Park. Not that you would.  James |
|
pookie
Backyard Balladeer
Posts: 8
|
Post by pookie on Nov 19, 2006 13:47:05 GMT 11
Yes ok. thewhole thing doesnt seem to fit in with the wizard of oz story properly for me. i know its not a true story but its the original. and what i was excited about seeing was how it turned around the original story i knew. it didnt. it just changed things that didnt make any sense or related at all to the original story. i was surprised. it gets talked about so much and when i saw it in america i didnt like it completely. and i was not surprised that almost every review of it was bad when it first opened. a phenomenon really. they are all my wicked comments over.
|
|
